Mountain Stage: An Oral History
Part 4: Changes, transitions, a new host, and a legacy
National Public Radio’s Mountain Stage has had a remarkably consistent run over the past 40 years, with only limited staff turnover as it has moved into 280 markets across the U.S. But at some point, every long-running show has to face changes.
After a long career with the state, show co-founder and executive producer Andy Ridenour retired for good in 2011 and was replaced by Adam Harris. Mountain Stage, still dealing with the financial challenges every public radio show encounters, sauntered on with Harris and the other two co-founders, engineer Francis Fisher and host/artistic director Larry Groce.
In 2021, soon after retiring and being replaced by Patrick Stephens as chief engineer, Fisher died at age 79. Groce, who hosted more than 800 consecutive shows before taking a break, asked to bring the show’s first guest host in 2016. Then nearing 70, Groce was starting to think about his eventual retirement.
“Nobody wants change,” Groce told me last March. “All of our crew, they didn't want me to leave because we have this machine that goes. It's easy. You don't want to mess with it., I said, ‘Boys, this isn't going to go on forever.’ It's been so lucky so far.”
Tim O’Brien, the Grammy Award winning bluegrass musician and a West Virginia native, was the show’s first guest host. It was a logical choice; O’Brien has has performed on more episodes of Mountain Stage than anyone. Then, in 2019, Ridenour saw Kathy Mattea — a Charleston native and Grammy Award winner who has been a guest on the show almost as much as O’Brien — perform at The Birchmere in Alexandria, Va.
Mattea asked about the show and Ridenour mentioned the guest host format, prompting her to reply, “How come they haven't asked me?"
This is the final installment in my oral history series on “Mountain Stage.” To read the other sections, click on one of the links below:
• Introduction
• Part 1
• Part 2
• Part 3
Here’s what took place next:
Ridenour: It was almost an afterthought, but I told her that they were looking for someone to step in when Larry retired. I was sure she wouldn’t be interested in doing that, but she said, “Put me on the list,” so I went back and told Adam.
Groce: We thought Kathy wasn’t going to do this because she’s in the middle of her career. But when Andy called and asked if we’d like to have Kathy as a guest host, we said, “Of course. Are you nuts?” She came on and was really quite good.
Initially, Mattea says she never thought about becoming the permanent host, but the Charlestown native “realized it checks the boxes of everything I think is important in the world.”
Mattea: It has West Virginia culture and it’s an institution. It has music and live performance and moving around in community. It shows you how music creates community and connection. At the end of the day, I thought, "Oh, this is just about love. It's just about loving on everybody and loving on this institution."
Groce: I’m incredibly grateful to her for even considering this. (When) she said she would like to do it, that was a bombshell for us. If we turn that down, we’re out of our minds. She’s from, literally, 20 miles from where we’re doing the show. She’s famous. She’s a Grammy winner whose sold millions of records. She’s more famous than Mountain Stage. We’ve known her since 1985 and she’s never really changed, not in the important ways. We were unbelievably fortunate to get her.
New Leadership
The transition from Groce to Mattea as the show’s permanent host was postponed by the pandemic, but eventually took place in 2021. By all accounts, it was seamless, although Mattea admits she underestimated how much time it would take to shift from performer to host.
Mattea: I was afraid I would feel like I was losing something because I'm now hosting everybody else and it's not so much about me, me, me, but I really enjoy it not being about me, me, me. My job is facilitating something for everyone else on the show.
Groce: She's improved very quickly. She's a quick study. It's not as easy as it seems to host a show like this. It seems easy, but it's not. You’ve got to be comfortable. She's really quite good, and we’ve done everything we can not to mess with her style. She's not going to be like me. She's going to find her own style and do it and she should because that means you can feel the show has changed.
Harris: It’s been remarkably free of ego. They’re mutual admirers of each other. Kathy realized the role she was stepping into, and Larry trusted her with the rich and sustainable legacy of it. Larry has fully let Kathy become her own host, and she is continually improving and growing into the role.
Mattea: There was never any pressure for me to be Larry, and they were very patient. The hardest part has been the man hours, really. I have to go and do the research and I have to listen to people's body of work and collect information. The research part of it is more tedious but it’s also really good for me. I would never dig into this much music. I'd just be too dang lazy. More and more I’m really enjoying that part, and I've got it down. I know how long it takes, and I know what my job is now. As I get clearer about it, I can be more efficient.
Ron Sowell, music director: Kathy has been an absolute joy to work with. She’s grown into the job, and what you see is what you get. She is a genuinely nice and of course an incredibly talented person. The fun part is that she just loves to sing. Along with Julie (Adams) our second background singer. I keep saying to her, “If you’re stressed out or don’t have time to do the background parts, I can do it or someone else can.” She says, “No, no, no. I love to do that. I want to do that.” She is so prepared.
Harris: Being a high-profile artist, Kathy grasped the broad sense of what we do, and she realized it is much more than just stepping in and hosting. She’s actually more of an ambassador, not just for the show but for West Virginia. We have a family vibe here, and we try to make the artists feel comfortable. Kathy understands it and knows how easy it is to translate it.
Looking Forward
After stepping down from permanent hosting duties, Groce continued to guest host on occasion, including Mountain Stage’s 1,000th show in 2022. When we spoke in March 2023, he was just three months away from hanging it up for good at age 75.
Groce: I've been with it since the beginning, and it will be an adjustment, but I'm stepping out of it one step at a time. When Kathy became the host, that was a big step, but most people didn't understand that was only about a third of my job. They figured that was it. I've spent the last two or three years teaching other people how to do the editing, but the hardest thing is the artistic directing. I've been talking to people about my philosophy and the show's philosophy of how we book and why we book who we book.
Now, the transition is almost complete, but Harris says the challenges of booking, hosting, and taping two dozen or more live shows each year are constant, in part because the show operates “within the parameters of a state agency.” The show is underwritten by sponsors and the Friends of West Virginia Broadcasting and receives a licensing fee from NPR.
Harris: The biggest challenges have always been financial. Our budget always has been to produce radio shows. That’s it. Our tickets are $25 in advance and $30 day of show. Anywhere else in the country that would be an $80 ticket. We provide a huge value compared to the rest of the country. We are seeing some growth. The livestreams have been good; it’s always good to see people are listening to us internationally. Then it’s on demand, but we’re always trying to sell tickets and promoting our broadcasts and livestreams. It’s constant.
As the interviews ended, I asked each person I spoke with to reflect on the show’s legacy. In each case, there was a pause.
Groce: Don't forget, everything in West Virginia's an underdog, no matter what. You hear West Virginia and something with mountain in the title, and people will say, "Oh, you're a fiddle and banjo show." We are 10% of the time, but the other 90% we’re something else. The stereotype of this state is so huge and so strong that it takes a lot to convince people. Many don’t listen; they just assume. They don’t even look at our roster of artists. All you have to do is take a quick look and you’ll go, “Wait a minute. This is not what I thought it was."
O’Brien: They will always feature the upcoming original musicians, the people who are coming up and have a new take on things. It could be traditional music, it could be pop music, it could be jazz whatever it is. They'll embrace it. They provide an outlet and these people with something to offer need an audience. It’s so remarkable — the stuff that they've put on there. They're always under the gun for funding but they seem to always land on their feet. I hope that and I expect that they will continue to find more solid ground to stand on as they go.
Mattea: I have an inherent appreciation for the way this show puts forth West Virginia culture, a sense of place and a sense of hospitality and a sense about the way it is here that a lot of the outside world doesn't see. They see more stereotypical stuff. Getting to promote West Virginia culture and this place that I love and that formed me is really fun. Really fun.
Harris: We’re a niche among niches, but no show hits as much diversity in terms of genre or type of musician that we do. That’s our legacy, and it’s what continues to make Mountain Stage so interesting.
Ridenour: No matter how much the business changes, there will always be a place for a program that brings you new and emerging artists and occasionally the big star. When you can learn something new and hear something that you like or that takes you to another place, that’s what the power of live music is all about.